I've
been pretty much glued to FB and twitter, going to stay off for the
rest of the day. I must say, I am heartened by all the pushback by
citizens and politicians, excluding the racist-in-chief of course who
was finally forced, 2 days later, to actually call out the KKK, white
supremacists, and nazis by name and condemn them and what they stand
for. You know that had to burn because he turned around and in
almost the same breath said he was considering pardoning racist and
white supremacist Sheriff Joe Arpaio. A&M University revoked the
permit for the white supremacist rally scheduled there for next
September 11 and I hope all the other universities where events like
this are pending do the same. Our 1st amendment right to
free speech only means that the government can't arrest you for what
you say. It doesn't protect you from the consequences of the words
you say; it doesn't give you the right to be heard in any venue of
your choosing.
Still,
it is going to get worse before it gets better. These people feel
emboldened and Trump's first comment about the hate and violence
'from many sides' had these nazis feeling good and they felt they had
his support and then threatened him by reminding him that they are
the reason he got elected. They have heavily infiltrated the police
departments all over this country, probably one explanation why the
police in Charlottesville stood back and let the violence play out
(the FBI has been investigating this infiltration and their inroads
in the Army as well and while the Army has recourse to discharge
them, the police forces do not).
I've
read several comments by people though that are saying meeting these
white supremacists with violence is not the answer, that violence
begets violence and they reference Ghandi and Martin Luther King and
the civil rights movement. Let me just say that the nazis would have
shot Ghandi in the head the first time he refused to do what they
said and that MLK was assassinated and I think comparing the militant
white supremacists to just regular old racists is a false
equivalency.
When
the KKK, white supremacists, militia members, nazis come to a rally
armed, long guns across their backs, pistols on their hips, pepper
spray in their hands wearing body armor and helmets and holding
shields, shouting racist slogans, peaceful protest is not on their
minds, flowers and peace signs and sit-ins are not going to make them stop and
think. They are not interested in dialog. The only thing they are
interested in is making this country white and christian and they
have no trouble doing it with violence. This needs to be nipped in
the bud by the police (who in this case stood by) and the National Guard because unfortunately, the only thing these white supremacists respond to and
respect is force. We know that because as the meme says, we
literally had to fight a war over this, the whole world was involved.
Now
I'm going to go stroll around in my garden.
I wish we could just ignore them and they'd go away. They WANT confrontation. They're young white men with too much disposable income and hearts filled with hate. Unfortunately, they cannot be ignored, can they? I still can't believe that I live in a country whose elected president (sort of) absolutely emboldens these guys and dare I say it? Encourages them? I also can't believe that I live in a country where these people (or any people, for that matter) can show up to protest something wearing that sort of weaponry and military armor, etc. We have gotten what we voted for and what we allowed to get voted for. We are also paying the bill for the sins of the fathers of our country who thought it was pretty okay to own other human beings and force them to work against their will.
ReplyDeleteAnd on and on and on and I'm sick of it all and we ALL NEED TO JUST TAKE A STROLL THROUGH THE GARDEN and I mean that in all ways possible if that is your fancy.
I think the police and the national guard should be prepared to counter the neo's, in any way, shape or form. I think ones who did not on Charlottesville's forces should be disciplined to the utmost. But turning the country loose to murder the rest of the country is not the answer. We may fight another war over this, and the whole world may be involved. We need to come to that. I will not take a gun with me to shoot people. I'm not strong enough to lift a revolver or pull a trigger, just for openers. We'd just be in the way of law enforcement doing the job. We have money and time, too. Support the organizations that support ending this stupidity. Now I'm going to go watch the kid water the rest of the garden.
ReplyDeleteI agree. the police should do their job. it doesn't seem like they did in Charlottesville. and the National Guard, that's their job but they have to be deployed by the politicians and what if they don't? I'm not advocating the citizenry rise up, at least not at this point. I am advocating learning who these people are, spreading their shame, putting pressure on their employers, shunning them. but we can't rule out the only language they understand.
DeleteWhat are we to do with the members of law enforcement who feel the same way as the white supremacists? They're everywhere, including our armed forces. I know. I have lived among them.
DeleteI have been to protest against neo nazis several times and the most impressive and effective was when everybody - and we were thousands - turned their backs to the miserable gang of mostly male idiots, in all the buildings along their route, windows and doors were shut and dark and there was mnassive silence. They packed it in pretty quickly.
ReplyDeleteAnd then there was this (still going on): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/neo-nazis-tricked-into-raising-10000-for-charity
oh, that's excellent. shunning. as I replied to Joanne, find out who these people are and make it public. several are already regretting their participation. others are loving the publicity. and yeah, I saw that article.
Deleteso was this event where everyone turned their backs on them a full on rally like in Charlottesville or was it just a bunch of yahoos marching with their long guns 'because they can'? cause I don't see that tactic working in Charlottesville or with those people.
DeleteYes, it was. However, our version of marching yahoos (not necessarily the ones who organise them) includes poorly educated mostly young men and a handful of women, often fortified by plenty of alcohol, in their chosen uniform attire, shaved heads, tattoos, etc. And remember, we have very strict gun laws, so no danger there. Also, rallies, once approved by a court, are met with a high police presence. All in all, counter demonstrators and police usually outnumber the neo nazis. The only time in recent years that a rally got out of hand was when organised hooligans joined in, taking the police totally by surprise.
DeleteThanks to our history, we have a couple of 'memorial' days and sites that neo nazis claim as theirs, so we can prepare as well. These rallies have been going on for as long as I can remember. The thing is, here, we cannot shout 'nazi go home' because they are at home. We must admit this. A certain percentage of our population tends to think that way for various reasons. It hovers at around 5-10%, peaking at 12-15% at times. There is the obvious one, attracting mostly male young persons with little perspective in life, same as IS groups or any sect, and here, there are several government sponsored projects in operation to support those who wish (but fear) to drop out again.
It's not perfect by any means, we know that there are neo nazi sympathizers among members of the armed forces and police, we know that illegal websites are financed via overseas channels (mostly white supremacy groups in the US and Scandinavia) and so on. We have a very active network, open and under cover, that observes these activities.
You cannot wish them away or ban them with your outrage or disgust, you need to watch them and stop them recruiting. The men you see on the streets are not the big guns behind it all. My guess is that they didn't even pay for their silly tiki torches, they were just told to turn up and someone handed them these tools.
The law had to use the violence to maintain order and not the citizens. I had not realized that white supremacists has infiltrated so many places. Makes sense and makes me terrified because we are in for more violence before this is over.
ReplyDeleteThis is not going to go away on it's own. I am afraid for us, and our future generations. I believe that a war will occur and unfortunately it will be within our boarders because of this divide we have in our country....
ReplyDeletethere's supposed to be about 10 more of these rallies this coming weekend. I guess we'll see how the authorities respond. these people have been training and preparing for civil war. if you've ever been to any of their website, it's scary. these are scary people. they want a civil war, a re-do on the one they lost.
DeleteWe hear you. Speak it and leave it. Go about your day in a loving way.
ReplyDeleteJoy and Peace.
It seems like we were actually making racial progress. I thought having a black president meant America had turned a page on its racist past, but unfortunately that wasn't the case.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to believe that this is the last gasp of racial hatred in this country but it's looking like far more than a gasp.
DeleteI think all of this, in a way, is a response to having had a black president. (And an excellent one!) It's pushback from the lunatic fringe. Your point about alt-right infiltration of police forces and the military is a good one. It's a scary time, but I do think most Americans (fortunately) see these demonstrators as evil extremists, well out of the mainstream. I like the shunning/ignoring idea.
ReplyDeletewell, now Trump has given a press conference to tell us how he really feels about the nazis, they have 9 rallies planned for this weekend all in liberal cities, and we cannot count on the police to stop them. the intifa will surely be there so we can expect some violence this weekend.
DeleteThey are not interested in dialog.
ReplyDeleteOne of the neo-Nazis from Charlottesville said almost those exact words. The bizarre thing is that for heavily armed thugs they whine and cry that they are the victims. I don't see another 19th century-like civil war coming but I do believe we will see homegrown terrorist events done by white supremacists.